Front suspension parts

[1972RM23]

Anyone buy front suspension parts from PST?
http://www.p-s-t.com/
Is it worth the cost of Polygraphite over stock OEM replacement parts.
Has anyone rebuilt their front suspension themselves or should i take it to a shop?

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Not a difficult task to do but does require a few specialized tools specific to Mopars to extract and replace some of the bushings, upper ball joint. I did Poly on the RR/GTX and it is a bit harsh, won’t do it again on a driver of any kind. I’ve since read to expect squeaking over time with the Polys. All rubber on the current Sat project.

[CtownRunner]

many poly bushing now are impregnated with graphite and are more quiet. While rubber is a softer ride, the poly handles better. IMHO

[dangina]

save money and do it yourself! The best out there are the nylon bushings from firm feel - best of both worlds, quiet and improved handling! be sure to pick up their greasable LCA pins and stiffening plate while your at it. PST is pretty good, I bought the solid Tie Rod sleaves from them and the adjustable LCA rods(which I believe were hotchkis without their name on them) I had bought their fast ratio pitman and idler arm but had to send it back as they gave my the wrong sector size, which I ended up buying from firm feel instead. PST gave me no hassle...

[road chicken]

Hey Steve,
There are three levels of bushing you can go with:
Stock style Rubber: which allow the suspension parts to move and change your caster, camber, and toe settings as you drive and brake, getting worse over time. But they do absorb road vibrations and give a smoother ride.

Poly-Graphite: Much better handling, control, and feedback with more feel of the road. Not much difference in ride quality as the springs, shocks and tires are the main players there.

Delrin, ( hard white plastic): Best for handling as the delrin doesn’t give at all and has been used on the street as well with good results.

In the spirit of the suspension as a whole, You are also tangling with another issue: Radial tires on a suspension designed for bias ply tires.

Radial suspensions are much stiffer in spring and anti-sway bar rates because the radial sidewalls flex much more than the bias plys. On our cars this adds more mush to an already soft suspension that depended on the tires for stiffness. The result is tons of body roll and under steer with a tendency to want to wander.

The polyurethane, ( and delrin even more so), will make a major difference in holding the suspension parts where they are supposed to be. The result is more reliable caster, camber, toe and even bump-steer geometry, which translates into a better feeling/steering and more controllable car when pushed . Rubber is used because it lasts acceptably long with a cheap price. Cheap is the key here, which is why they use it in production today. Poly and Delrin will also last longer and perform better over the life of the car. This applies only to the steering control ( under all conditions). Body roll, under-steer, and anti- dive have to be addressed in the springs and Anti-sway bars and shocks

I used the PST Polyurethane bushing kit when I rebuilt my front end years ago. They were just coming out with the graphite impregnated units as an option- that I didn’t take. I would definitely do it again- with the graphite units- as mine did squeak for about 2000 miles, but I haven’t heard boo out of them since. Greasing the units during assembly helped a lot also.

If you decide to go with PST ( or another Poly units)>>>>
Do not take your front end apart until you have their kit in hand. They do not ( or didn’t at the time), include the outer or inner sleeves, which turns out to be a blessing as it saves time not having to press out the old bushings sleeves. You just drill out the old rubber bushing, clean and grease the sleeves and press the new bushing and inner sleeves back together. A local shop would be a good idea as they can press the bushings back in and have the socket and impact wrench to make quick work of the upper ball joints. Then you can re-assemble them.

I drive mine a lot, as you know, and never had a complaint (other than I have more car than seat holding ability), but I have upgraded the suspension as a whole so it’s made to make the most of the radials. I guess it’s going to depend on what you want. A smooth ride with the handling ills inherit with adding radials on a suspension designed for bias tires, ( heavy under steer, and more of a tendency to wander). Or getting some of that handling back by stiffening up the suspension bushings, which also makes the car more predictable, since the parts aren’t moving around in relation to each other over bumps and corners. Although to take full advantage of the radial tires, T-bars and anti-sways should be upgraded too. Same goes for the rear suspension, as they work as a team with the front.

Personally I would leave the rubber for the rarely driven/ show car guys looking for points and run the poly units if it sees any real street time.

Just my 02c

[1972RM23]

AWESOME REPLYS
I want it to handle better than it does now (body roll and wandering).
I just put on a front set of KYB shocks and it drives better but the whole front end needs a rebuild.
I'm going to go with the polygraphite rebuild kit.

[road chicken]

That being the case, I would also look into a heavier front anti-sway bar and one for the rear if not so equipped. Those control the body roll without harshening the ride, as would be the case with stiffer Tbars and springs.

[dangina]

Best deal I found on tubular sway bars - it can't be beat and they work great!

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php ... s_id=16954
http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php ... s_id=10105

for reference:

http://www.hellwigproducts.com/

I should ask - have you installed subframe braces yet?

[1972RM23]

I stopped by a local repair shop with a few Mopars on the racks and asked if they could install front
suspension kit if I brought the parts.
He said around $1500 in labor costs (no parts included).
Am I crazy or is this way high?
Has anyone had their front suspension rebuilt and for what cost?
I know you guys say do it your self but it's this one job left to the pros.
1500 has me thinking I should try it?
Thoughts?
Prices?

[kenny]

i hope that is crazy high! i have made a goal schedule for my project and was shooting to have my kit installed in the next 4-6 weeks. i am like you and think for my skill this is a job i would rather have a pro do. i have not asked around yet but my thought was to take mine to a local 4-wheel drive custom shop and have them do it. they install more suspension in a month than probably any other mechanic shop around here does in a year. like i said i hope that is a crazy high price, i have no experienced reason to have picked $200-$300 but that is what i had penciled in my budget for that job. if that is an accurate cost i will get really hungry this spring.

[sdweatherman]

Steve,
Yes that is way high. Get some more estimates. Also let them know exactly what kit you want to use - so that you are comparing apples to apples. There are some bushings that have to be pressed out and in (Upper control arms, lower control arms, front leaf spring eye bushing). If you are doing upper control arm ball joints, there is a special tool that has to be used. Once everything is back together, an alignment is needed. Its a little bit of work, but not $1500 worth of work.

Are you a member of a local club? Maybe you could bribe one of the more mechanically knowledgeable members with some beer/food to come over and give you a hand with it some Sat/Sun?

Good luck! Scott.

[rr6pak]

$1500? WOW, what are they smokin?

I'm doing mine myself. Bought a kit from a known vendor. Also got a larger front sway bar, new shocks, lCA box plates, adjustable strut rods, etc. It helps to have a manual, the tools (some can be borrowed from parts stores), compressor and a bud or two for help and or supply beer and words of encouragement.

As always, you can post questions here. many here are willing to help.

Good luck and keep informed

[gcoupe72]

Consider disassembling the suspension yourself.
You'll need fewer special tools, and can inspect the parts, document inspection marks,etc..
Find a shop that has the expertise, to replace the bushings for you, some will rebuild parts shipped to them.
Mark where your eccentrics are, measure your tie rods,and your front end height,you can re-assemble the car, and drive to an alignment shop.
You'll need tools to separate the ball joint studs, tie rod ends, and steering arm puller.
Don't use a pickle fork!!!, this will damage parts that might be reusable.
Some you can rent, or borrow(with a deposit).
First, measure everything!
If you hit a snag, we'll help.

[dangina]

their ripping you off, put it all together and bring it in for an alignment. Thats way too much money..

[71_bronze_gtx]

Back to the bushings for a minute. Rubber and similar materials are characterized with a term known as durometer scale, which describes the stiffness. A polyurethane substitute can be made to the same durometer as the rubber part it replaces, or it can be made softer or stiffer. The main advantage of polyurethane is that it does not "age" (deteriorate over time) as quickly as rubber.

Delrin is a hard, dimensionally stable thermoplastic with a very low coefficient of friction. In a suspension bushing, Delrin would transmit shock from rough roads into the chassis much more than rubber, but would provide more precise handling and improved stability.

For a description of tire technology as relates to handling and ride, check out Wikipedia at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias-ply_tire#Bias

Assuming about $100 per hour labor, 15 hours sounds high. A good mechanic could do the job in a lot less. I think you could do better. If you have the time, space, aptitude, and tools to do the job yourself, make sure you have the service manual to guide you along.

Good luck.