Oil pans and windage trays, oh my!

[patrick]

I've always liked the looks of a large anodized-gold Milodon oil pan hanging out with the same "DGAF" attitude as the old man on the park bench with too tight shorts just daring the passing joggers to say something...

That being said, what are the pros and cons of going to a deep-sump/high-capacity oil pan? My Road Runner is relatively stock and mainly going to be used for street driving (short commutes, actually) and want to know what I'm giving up, if anything, on a relatively stock 440/4-speed (for example, will the stock oil pick-up work? do I need a windage tray? am i ruining my engine at all, or for that matter, helping it at all? which pan is best for a stock application yet still hangs pretty low? or does it even matter what size?)

I mainly want it for bling since the front of my car sits at stock ride height (read: sits pretty high). Oh, don't get me wrong, if the right opportunity at a light presents itself...

[landon1]

well, i'm not sure about everything right now, but that is the route i'm going with my rebuild. got my windage tray off ebay (only saved about $6, but it was a new item), then got my deep sump zinc-plated pan with new pickup from a speed shop here in IA for $81. yes, you do need a new pickup, otherwise that extra oil you have won't be getting sucked-up. windage tray is debatable. the deep sump pan is baffled, which will help keep the oil where it belongs, while the windage tray will keep it where it belongs plus reduce the amount of oil being thrown around creating drag on the moving parts, thus supposedly losing horsepower. it's said that this is only at really high RPMs, or possibly at highway speed, however, this could maybe occur on hard acceleration or deceleration. Milodon claims a 12-14 HP increase on a street motor - idk if that's reasonable or not - i got one just in case - i had a bad oiling problem (components weren't bad, but when your timing gear is coated in plastic and people have used quite a bit of gasket sealer on your motor, you're bound to have problems...), so i wanted to get virtually the best oil system for a street motor (i don't consider external pickups and such as being for a street motor)

i'll get some pics of my new pan and pickup later and post-up

[patrick]

What is the quart capacity of the pan? I bet oil changes will be more expensive with a larger capacity (doing it all yourself even), but worth it I imagine.

[landon1]

it is a 7 quart pan, so if you wanted, you could run 8 quarts of oil...however, i don't think most people actually run the full capacity...more like 6 total - i'm not terribly worried about it, as i'm going to be using Valvoline Race oil, which is pretty pricey anyways. The pan is 7" deep from mounting flange to bottom of the sump - my factory pan was 5.25" deep, so it will hang a little, but i think i'll be fine on ground clearance, especially once i get the suspension rebuilt hopefully next winter

I thought about putting in an E85 conversion kit for my holley to cut down a bit on operating cost(E85 is about 1.50/gallon), but the kit is $300 i think, and you have to get special hoses for the fuel and maybe even special gaskets. in addition to that, you lose 17% economy, so idk that it would be worth it anyway.

[landon1]

here's some pics i took of my oil pan/pickup and windage tray...lighting not very good on the oil pan pics, but i think you should get the idea

oil pickup tube is MUCH larger than the stock piece

[Diriccatiticka]

Well, the owner before me boofed another 7 quart pan on a curb by accident, and unsuccessfully tried to repair it with JB Weld. No doubt that it sets low. So, in turn, I scraped it on a dip in the road and finished it off. I needed a replacement...

...Which ended up being the Milodon Street/Strip "Low-Profile" 7 quart pan, in black instead of gold. I believe the matching pickup is necessary if you want to use your additional capacity (Like landon said). Oil changes aren't too much more expensive, I do mine myself anyway. With this pan and the K&N HP-3001 oil filter, I use 8 quarts on the dot. I do have a windage tray that matches my crank, but I had that from my former setup. Windage trays are often used for high RPM's, it hugs the crank closely and scrapes off the excess oil, freeing up horses. Landon's right on the money about the baffle too. Good call!

I've been pretty happy with the setup and I believe I brushed it in the center of a driveway once. Other than that, it works well. For built engines, oiling capacity is much needed to feed the valvetrain up top. Honestly, regardless of setup, I don't think it'll hurt anything, just help.

The design of the pan is nifty with the lightly kicked out sump, it gives a little bit more clearance than your average high-quantity pan. Or at least my former one was just a square cube instead of a trapezoid shape and hung down an extra inch.

The Milodon could be easily bashed if not careful, then again if you don't live in rural nowhere like me, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The only real con I have on this is ground clearance, I believe I have about 4"-5" of clearance from the bottom of the oil pan to the ground.
A nice pro of the factory style 6 quart Hemi pan is that it sits inside the K-Frame, which I would recommend for peace of mind. But don't let me discourage you!

I can post pictures of it if you wish...But other than that, if you have any more questions, let us know...Good luck!

[patrick]

Does the Hemi pan fit the other big blocks?

I guess I don't need to bling my car out with a pan and just go drive my car for once because:

a) who's going to see the damn pan anyway
b) it's more of a cruiser than a high-RPM bracket racer

[71440 gtx]

the 70-71 hemi oil pad is same one that comes on a 70-71 440 hp 4bbl 6bbl

so it will fit a 1958 b 350 -up to 1978 rb b 440 400

yes there is a 350 b block

[landon1]

my deep sump oil pan is virtually the same design as the low profile milodon - normally, deep sump pans are 7.75" - 8" deep, where the one i have is also 7". Stock is 5.25" on my HP/Police motor, which is probably the basic depth for most big blocks. i was going to get a black one, but the guy wanted to charge me tax, so i got the zinc gold pan for less from someone else.

i was looking into the 6 quart hemi pan, but at around $170, which one would you pick compared to $80? and if i do have a clearance issue, i can cut-out a section and re-weld the bottom on but, i figure, my headers probably sit about as low as this oil pan will be, and hell i ran 3.5" sidepipes with out issues once i raised my torsion bars and got rid of my low-profile tires.

[Diriccatiticka]

Oooh, I see! Well, learn something new everyday. One thing's for sure landon, you couldn't beat your price! My torsion bars are cranked and I have some chunky truck tires on the front of my machine, which definitely help assist with clearance. I'm working with 225/70R14's now, which was a big step up from the 195/60R14's and dropped torsion bars I had before!

True point on the headers too, I should give up caring, because it seems everything drivetrain related on my car is practically dragging anyway. I have the Milodon up front, then behind that a B&M +4 quart cast aluminum trans pan. Knowing me I'll eventually get some fancier headers and run a 3.5" X-pipe with unnecessarily huge glasspacks...After that it'd be about time for a lift kit.

I was comparing those oil pans, they are relatively similar all around. I've come to the conclusion that if I injure this pan, they do sell a circle track pan that would be interesting to try. The cost is a bit steep for my liking though, however, I think it holds 7 quarts and sits up in the frame too.

But, like patrick said, it does look pretty fancy to have the sump hanging out. Someone had to compliment sometime that your engine's got huevos.

[landon1]

i have 225/70-14s as well...BFG Radial TAs - they were 225/60-14s (maybe 215s idr) and it was a HUGE improvement over those - i also cranked up my t-bars, as they were dropped as well...so i think i'm probably sitting at, or maybe a little above stock height in the front

[71Runner]

I went w/the hemi pan and windage tray on my 383 build. I believe it provides me w/one additional quart, which is fine for me.

[JosephGiannini]

OIL PANS

SCRAPERS

WINDAGE TRAYS.

ADDED OIL CAPACITY.

WHAT IS THE ACTUAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN?

MOST PEOPLE THINK THAT ADDING EXTRA OIL TO THE CAPACITY WILL HELP IMPROVE PERFORMANCE.

HOWEVER WHEN NASCAR WAS UTILIZING THE RB AND LA CLASSIFCATION ENGINES.

MOST THE TIME THEY USED A BETTER QUALITY OIL AND REDUCED CAPACITY BY ONE QUART TO IMPROVE

PERFORMANCE.

THE IDEA BEHIND WINDAGE TRAY IS BASED UPON OIL DELIVERY SYSTEMS.

SUCH AS OIL STARVATION DURING PERFORMANCE FACTORING.

SUCH AS THE AAR AND TA VEHICLES CAME STOCK WITH WINDAGE TRAY IN THE 340 AAR AND TA CLASSIFICATION OF ENGINES.

WHY WOULD MOPAR DO THIS?

THEY HAD A GROUP OF ENGINEERS KNOWN AS THE "RAMCHARGERS" THEY DID PERFORMANCE TESTS.

THEY FOUND OIL STARVATION WAS OCCURING IN THE TURNING FOR SCCA BASED RACES.

THE IDEA TO CORRECT WAS OFFSET ENGINE WEIGHT AND USE A WANDAGE TRAY.

HOWEVER WITH BETTER OIL PUMPS AND DELIVERY SYSTEMS EXTERNAL OIL COOLING SYSTEMS.

HIGH PERFORMANCE OIL PUMPS.

IS A WINDAGE TRAY NECESSARY?

I WOULD HAVE TO PROFILE THE ENGINE TO SEE SO.

IF YOU ADD CAPACITY OF OIL TO A LOW PERFORMANCE PUMP THEM YOU MAY NOT BE HELPING.

THE IDEA IS TO PROFILE THE ENGINE FOR THE PERFORMANCE NOT TO MIX AND MATCH PARTS.

[ARI440]

heres mine

7 quart low profile milidon oilpan

[steved]

extra volume helps keep the oil temp down.

sjd