Once and for all - The Tips debate may end here!!!!

[AZ-Nick]

For the last year or so i have been working with a company in producing 71-72 tips for our cars and I am waiting for delivery of what I hope as the last test samples before I make up mind if I should continue with this or stop it and move to the next project. In all this time, I have been going crazy trying to figure this out and the results are just as crazy, "What are the Correct Tips for a 71 GTX".....

I have read through all the threads on what is right and what is wrong and I still believe that there is NO definite answer to this problem and I think I can prove it without a doubt.

Fact is, there are 4 sizes of tips, as posted by 71440GTX on Fri Oct 17, 2008, they are
3466110 - Roadrunner/GTX w/440-6 & Hemi (cars with resonators)
3466113 - Charger w/440-6 & Hemi (cars with resonators)
3466122 - Roadrunner gtx
3466123 - Charger
I am unsure if the part number descriptions are correct but at this time let us say that they are correct

In the order from the listing above, here are the pics of each of those tips:





I can safely say "Houston we have a problem", as most of you know I have a true original 71GTX that I bought from the original owner that is a time piece when it comes to looking at it. My car was parked by 1976 when the owner could not afford the gas and insurance at this time. Almost 30yrs later I have the chance and I do purchase the GTX from the original owner and we spent 3 months talking about the car from the day he ordered it to the day he sold it to me. I heard it all and I was excited to hear about it. I still cannot believe he removed 2 tires that were flat and put 2 of the original Rallye wheels with the original factory installed tires on the car, he still had them in the storage shed from 1972 when he removed them. He said his brother stole or borrowed the other 2 and does not believe they are still around. To this day I still could not believe it. When it comes to the exhaust, my car has its original exhaust from the manifolds to the tips.
Here is a pic of my tips on my car and then look at the following pics of other X cars including the black one that won OE a few years ago. Then look at the 72's I have included, yes I already know that they may have been changed but look at the tips carefully, especially the yellow GTX which I think is original and the Black 72 which I also think is original.
I may be wrong but I don't think so, I still believe that 71-72 GTX and possibly RR's received both the long and short tips.

I know Eric hates the long tips thinks they do not belong on the GTX or RR but I gotta say you are wrong....

These are the correct length tips for a non-resonator car (they are reproductions, not NOS). If your are longer, they're for a Charger and will look stupid!

Like I said, this is my opinion but I feel that it is correct because my survivor has them.
If any members here on the NEST own any of the cars I posted pics of, please tell us about the tips on your car.....







Unsure about this one but .....




I am going to try to contact the owner of this car, it was just on Ebay and see if he could send me a few pics of the tips and exhaust and see if they are original or not.

[AZ-Nick]

What if I am wrong.......

[steved]

That green car on ebay is the ultra sexy...man, it's sweet...sherwood green , cop rallyes...exactly the car I'm building, 'cept mine's tawny gold...

sjd

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Nick,
Here is a shot from the 72' factory parts cat.

It does appear to support 71440gtx’s 71’ part number break down and the contention that the longer tips were intended for the Charger only.

The Charger body is longer overall than the Plymouths. Pretty sure the Charger rear valance sits at least an inch more aft than does the Plymouths in relation to the tip hanger mount. The longer tips and/or shorter tips protruding too far out on a Plymouth just doesn’t look correct IMO and experience. I’m afraid I would have to agree with the “look stupid” comment.

[AZ-Nick]

As you can see that is not what they did!

[sogtx]

St Louis Vs. LA cars ?

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Sorry Nick, I’m not convinced yet.The parts catalog was intended to be the official word as to what replacement parts went with what application. Although rather vague with wording at times it was generally considered very accurate by the dealer personal who used them daily. Any production variations were usually well noted. In my dealer experience around to these cars when they were new I can’t remember ever seeing the longer tips on a Plymouth.
What I have seen however, where the occasional damaged cars arriving at the dealer, unloaded from transport trucks and rolled straight into the “in house” body shop where the quality and accuracy of the repair work was not the major concern. Plenty of opportunity for a “new car” to lose a piece of originality before an unknowing customer would take delivery.

[AZ-Nick]

my tips are still attached to the exhaust pipe from the factory, the owner said there was never any backside damage to the car ever.

My X also came from the factory with an auto carb instead of the 4sp carb.....

[AZ-Nick]

you cant always believe the shop book, ask 10 71 B Body owners what does the lock ferrule look like on the door panels and you will get 8 say this way and 2 will say that way, trust me, just ask Eric.
Also ask how many received a chrome hood release handle and how many received a black handle!
Remember the Beltstrip differences and they both had the same part number!

The book has been wrong!

[RS23-71]

Are how my exhaust tips look on my car and I believe they are original since when I bought the car back in '87 they were already fairly rusted out while the rest of the car was not and had all stock exhaust and manifolds on it. BTW to see the 2nd pic you might need to view it outside the forum since it cuts off the right side of the pic.

Mine looked like the ones on the yellow GTX pictured above which appear to be the shorter ones.

I just looked at the '71 b-body eng drawings that I saved before they had to be taken down from Hamtramck site and they list the same thing.

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

The factory parts book was the ONLY way for dealer parts professionals to identify replacement part numbers for a particular application; it had to be accurate as it possibly could in order to conduct their business of selling replacement parts. Part numbers were superseded over time when minor or improved changes were made but still fit the original application. Minor cosmetic production changes on various replacement parts that would not alter its application would not necessarily require a different part number if the application remained the same.
Nick, just for sake of friendly argument, you say you “know for a fact” that your tips were”bolted on at the factory”. How do you know that, how can you tell, did you or the original owner witness the car being put together, arriving at the dealer and watching it until it was delivered to the original owner? I know you are very confident of what you know about the car based on your communications with the original owner but how can you know for a fact?
My point about damaged cars was there were many cars delivered to customers that had repairs or modifications performed by the dealer prior to them ever laying eyes on their cars and were never told about them. Some of these repairs/mods may have technically disqualified some cars as representing factory original. Yet starting at the regional Chrysler parts depots on down through dealer parts inventory shelves, with 1 digit off parts numbers, those tips were sitting side by side with each other.
How about this possible scenario, its 1971, a transport truck driver is backing a GTX off his rig at the selling dealer. Ends up scraping up the tips pretty badly. The guy at the dealer who inspects the transported cars finds the damage and files the claim with the transport company. Somebody in parts orders tips out of the parts catalog, two days later the tips arrive the same day delivery is scheduled. The technician attempts to install the replacement tips only to find they look like the original but are longer. It is determined that the parts kid ordered from the wrong column, they are Charger tips. It will take another two days to get the right tips, its months-end and the sales department needs to deliver the car today in order get the sale in the books. The car is delivered on time with slightly longer factory looking tips. The owner has no clue and is none the wiser that they are not original to the car. I know for fact situations like this have taken place at dealers and likely continue to this day.
Assembly line error? May be, known to happen, well documented. Only problem I have with that is weren’t Chargers assembled in completely separate plants? Unlikely there would be long tips intended for Charger production anywhere near a Plymouth b-body production line.Yet starting at the regional Chrysler parts depots on down through dealer parts inventory shelves, with 1 digit off parts numbers, those tips were sitting side by side with each other.

[TX9GTXN96]

In my '71 GTX, there was a second Broadcast sheet from a '71 383 2bbl Charger WP23L1G161707, so Chargers were in fact made alongside '71 Plymouths in the St.Louis plant. My X's VIN is 161385.

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Same city, same plant, OK, I’ll buy it. The two competing product’s production lines close enough together that build sheets and assembly parts could be easily exchanged? Having a tough time with that here. If indeed the two lines were running literally side by side then that would support the possibility an assembly error in this case. Are you sure Charger seats were not swapped into the Plymouth at some later point?

[TX9GTXN96]

Yup, the top half had the original sheet for my GTX, and the bottom half had the '71 Charger sheet. Only 322 cars apart on the line, but they both have the same interior code. FWIW- my GTX has the original exhaust as well, and the tips are the short version...

[TX9GTXN96]

Here is a Moparts member '71 4-spd GTX with the original tips, look like shorties to me.