440 Build

[landon1]

Posted this also on Moparts, but thought there may be some hands-on engine guys here as well...looking for some answers


The plan is to pull the motor from my 71 Satellite and rebuild it this winter, so I've been doing as much research as I can on what to do for the best STREET build. This motor was put in long before I got the car 6 years ago. At that point it ran like a champ, putting anything any of the other guys had in high school to shame...now, it's getting kind of tired and it really needs some re-freshening.

Here's what I know about the motor...it has the front timing cover of a 76-78 motor, judging by the timing tab(according to 440 source website), which also means it had a CAST crank. It also has 73-later water pump housing. It had 452 heads on it as well, which i replaced with "high performance" cast iron ones. At this point, I'm not sure as far as the internals - I'm assuming cast crank judging by the findings of the water pump housing and timing cover. However, it also has a 1968 intake manifold #2806178, which kind of throws me off a bit - I don't recall the casting # on the block at this time.

Currently I have a 650 DP, electronic ignition, HV oil pump, and Hedman headers and 2.5" dual exhaust with turbo mufflers as my "upgrades".

I'm curious to find out what the general consensus on what to do is. I was considering a new rotating assembly and everything, but I'm not sure my budget will allow for it. I have a friend who can get my machine work done for me for a decent price.

I think that right now, I should go with re-grinding my crank (.010), boring cylinders to .030 over(assuming stock bore). If I do have a cast crank, will my engine suffer at all, or have limitations?

For a cam, I think the Comp XE268H or Lunati Voodoo 60302 would be the best choices for me (stock converter). Running stock stamped rockers, would like to upgrade to better pushrods. The heads I purchased 4 years ago have springs good to .509" lift. I still have the old 452s, so I could port them and have those as an option as well.

For an intake, I'm up for suggestions - at this point the Eddy RPM, Weiand Action+, or MP dual plane are my choices. Or, i've considered keeping the stocker and port-matching it, though I've read it doesn't do much good...Would like to keep the carb I am running, but wouldn't mind getting something more fuel friendly and with electric choke (Performer 750?)

Not sure what pistons to get either...would like to have a mild street motor that will still have plenty of power - thinking around 9.3:1 - is that correct? Would like to run 89 octane, but could run 91 if needed.

I'm still not sure on rear gearing either...I need to verify what I have and determine if I even want to change.

I know there are several 440 build questions, but most seem to be for some pretty expensive, or even stroker builds and not the general street crowd. Really looking for some advice so I know what to look at and how much to be saving-up.

Thanks guys!

[rr6pak]

Landon, are you looking for a '71 440 block?

[1bluegtx]

The first thing i would do is find out what year motor it is.The date will be cast in the side of the block.A cast crank will be just fine for a street motor(keep in mind that chrysler used cast cranks in 440s for years with no problems!)The rods will be fine too,if you get new pistons i would have the rotating assembly balanced.I would not worry about gasket matching,but some porting around the bowl area of the heads will do wonders.

BRIAN

[JosephGiannini]

If you going to get it done.
I would do a few things different heads are ok.
I like stock on 440s for pushrods cranks and most internals.
new heads stage 3 at
http://www.aeroheadracing.com
put a better cam in it .450 intake .450-.468 exhaust lift duration
get it breathing right
high performance ignition system i use accel for mild street
ditch the points
43kvdc super stock coil with a points eliminator system
with accel 8.8mm wires and bosch platinum plugs
melling oil pump
carter high capacity fuel pump
fuel cooler
mr gasket fuel pressure regulator
remote oil filter with oil cooler

now fuel delivery is the question you have several options

you have the 3x2 which is airgap by the way holley,demon, carter option
you have the 4x2 holley, quadrajet,willys,barry grant or edelbrock option
you have the 4x2 crossram option
you have the unique hard to find 4 weber confugration
you have the edelbrock efi option
or optional self contained fuel injection now offered which bolts to any 4 barrel manifold
you also have the 4x2 tunnel ram option
you have the edelbrock rpm air gap option which if you do i suggest the 800cfm avs thunder option

which ever configuration you decide you need also at that point to check compression
if you go over 9:5 to 1 i strongly suggest a lead subsitute to help valve operation

large tube headers hooker super comps ceramic coated
also i would suggest a 4 core radiator with aux electric fans as back up
in case you get hot at idle
now if you do this dyno the engine on a engine stand
if it goes above 350-400 hp make sure you build the trans to stand up to it
also if you go above that make sure you support the suspension as well as braking and handling
any performance modifications I almost suggest a trans cooler automatically

I would not bore out the block.
later year 440s tend to be a bit thin walled.
when rebuild do not reuse the fasteners
replace all fasteners with appropriate torque ratings on them

[landon1]

The main reason for this is that I had a bit of motor noise, i was thinking rod (which it still could be - not ruling that out), but i started using oil and even spitting some out the back, but the car was running pretty well (just not quite as powerful as before)....upon further inspection and research, I have a valve not opening (barely at all), so i checked out what i could and we've come to the conclusion that my cam is worn, which could also explain that lil bit of motor noise

i'm going to tear it down and see where i'm at, first checking my compression, as this thing SCREAMED before, so i'm assuming it's not stock (hopefully not needing pistons)...but, i'll find out.

Already have...
dual feed Holley carb
high volume oil pump
aluminum radiator
high volume water pump
headers/2.5" exhaust
new(basically) heads
HEI ignition

So, here's my list...
Re-ring kit: bearings (turn crank if needed)
rings
gaskets
Comp XE 268 or Lunati Voodoo 268 cam and lifters
Comp pushrods
aluminum intake (not sure if i'll have the funds, but it's an easy swap if i do it later)
7qt oil pan, .5" pickup, windage tray (modifying oil passageways & pikup to "HEMI")

[BuckNeccid]

Many many years ago, at the Mopar nats I was looking for a cheap intake, as I was bucks down. I found an old Weiand I had never seen before, shrugged my shoulders and gave the guy $25. Best money I had ever spent. Since that time, I've used the same intake on 3 different 440's, and still like it better than any other I've ever used (with the exception of six packs).

The intake has a flat semi open plenum, with a divider, and very short runners, only seperated by a triangle of aluminum making them about 2 inches long at the top, and almost none at the bottom. This sounds like a high RPM intake, but I've never noticed a loss of power on the bottom end. No hood clearance problems.

Weiand has discontinued them, but you can still find them on e-bay, that's where I got my last one, and there's one there now. I know it's obscure, but it's one intake I still swear by.

Here ya go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CUDA-CHA ... 0342953059

[moparite]

Just throwing in my 2 cents, Just keep in mind the cam, converter and rear gear work together depending what you want the car to do. As in race cars the cam will start building power at a certain rpm. The converter will hook when the cam hits it's power band. The rear gear puts the power to the pavement. To low or high you will loose performance. If you are looking to save some cash you might want to look in to the "old school" intakes. You know the stuff you find at the meets and ebay. I used the edelbrock tm7 over the plain torker intake (smaller runners). When buying used intakes look at the mounting holes for the carb. The holes get stripped from people cranking down the bolts to tight. If it is sripped just put in a heli-coil. I'd stick with holley carbs, never had a problem with them. Sealed Power used to make good pistions reasonably priced. I'd go for a rear gear around 3.32 or so. A 3.55 might be to much at highway speeds. Oh I almost forgot, All big blocks pryer to 1970 had forged cranks. Its just good piece of mind to go with a forged crank. Do your research! Depending on where you want your power band. You don't want to put a tunnel ram on a motor with a motor home cam(low rpm). Most of the stuff you can get cheap or reasonable at the swap meets.

[landon1]

rebuild should start coming this month....compression-wise, i think i'm going to be fine with stock - according to my calculations (kb-silvolite) i should be around 8.6-8.8 static compression, which is approximately the actual compression of the late 60s-early 70s that were inflated numbers...not great by any means, but with the Comp Cams CamQuest software i'm looking around 360ish HP, and 490ish TQ, so basically a stock-style HP rebuild. The cam has a powerband of 1600-5800 IIRC, which is perfect for me...converter is good and the cam is designed to work with the stock piece.

Gears, are one thing i'm not sure about yet, as i'm not really sure what my complete plans will be...right now i mostly put around town and that's it, so i could go with a taller gear, but i also drive interstate quite a bit and am hoping to do my pilgrimage to nats or carlisle when my boy is old enough to remember and have fun with it.

I'm running a Holley 650 DP, which actually gets better fuel mileage than my VS Holley did...i could see myself maybe stepping up to a 750 VS or an 800 Edelbrock. For now, i think i'm going to try port-matching my stock 69 HP intake and keep my 4hole spacer that's been on there forever. An aluminum intake may be an option down the road, but this is definitely not a permanent stopping point for me right now - just brought on by my wiped cam (ARGH)...for anyone who doesn't frequent moparts, you may need to switch your oil brand or you'll have the same problem

[CtownRunner]

What oil were you using and what are you pouring into it now?

[landon1]

i was mostly using Rotella HD 15-40 the last year or so and i tried 20-50; prior to that i was using Quaker State 10-40...apparently, diesel oil still has zinc in it (main ingredient to protect flat tappet cams), but the diesel oil will be reducing their zinc levels int he next year or so.

So, from what i've been reading, racing oil is good, otherwise you need to get Amsoil at $7/quart or use motorcycle oil - i'll probably be using Valvoline 20-50 race oil (possibly go down to 10-30...depends)when the rebuild is finished

pretty funny - it says "race applications only...not for street use" will cause damage to catalytic converters, but the zinc, phosphorus, ZDP, ZDDP, whatever you want to call it is a necessity for flat tappet motors

[landon1]

Got the motor out and tore down (man, it helps to know people)...lifted it straight out with an electric hoist, swung it over to the engine stand, lowered it down perfect...what a great night. motor was a lot worse off than anticipated, however. the cam timing gear had that plastic tooth garbage on it....and it ended up falling apart, going through my motor, scoring my crank, and finally ending up in my oil pump pickup screen, thus the reason for my oiling problem and the little bit of knocking at high rpm's. i soaked the pickup in a can of gas, and blew it out with air getting probably 1/3rd of a cup of junk out of it oh, and i didn't have a wiped cam lobe, the bottom of the lifter caved-in!

But, i took it down to the machine shop today and got a GREAT deal on machine work (again, it helps to know people), but he has 4 race motors to build, then mine will be up, so it should be done by the end of the month and back in the car by middle of june, maybe not til july...sure would have been nice to get started sooner since this is prime classic car driving weather

here's some pics - i didn't get pictures of all that junk from the pickup tube