Hi guys,
I would like to ask you if you have any experience or recomendations regarding the front suspension bushings.
I dunno if I should get the standard rubber ones or the polygraphite ones.
My garrage buddy tells me that I should just get the less expensive standard rubber ones unless I'm going racing, which I'm not.
On the other hand the improoved handlling from the poly bushings would be recognizable during normal driving too, right?
I have my eyes on P-S-T bushings, any experience with their product?
Thanks,
Capsule
Front suspension restoration
Moderator: Site Administrators
Front suspension restoration
'71 Roadrunner Clone - 440 - 727 - Airgrabber - Curious yellow
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road chicken
- GTX (RS)
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:21 pm
- Location: SE WI
I used the poly bushings everywhere... including the rear spring eyes and shackles. I wouldn't go back to rubber. It makes a huge difference in how fast the car sets into corner and how stabile ( sp?) it stays through the corner. Even for someone whose not "handling orientated" it makes for allot more sure footed car. The ride quality is not seriously affected because that is more a function of spring rate , antisway abr rates and your shocks. However you will lose some isolation because the polys hold the suspension parts where they are supposed to be instead of squishing around like the rubber does.
Just be sure you get the graphite impregnated polys- if not they will sqEEEEEk like an overstressed bed spring,
well for the first 5000 miles anyway.
Just be sure you get the graphite impregnated polys- if not they will sqEEEEEk like an overstressed bed spring,
well for the first 5000 miles anyway.4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs
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CtownRunner
- GTX (RS)
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- Location: Cleveland, the North Coast
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moparmodeler
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- My Cars: 1972 plymouth Satellite with a slant 6.
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CtownRunner
- GTX (RS)
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KeithRichards
- Satellite Coupe (RL)
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- Contact:
Re: Front suspension restoration
Talk to Dick at http://www.firmfeel.com as he help with our 72 RR and it handles very well and we are very impressed for the whole cost. He is in Washington State.Capsule wrote:Hi guys,
I would like to ask you if you have any experience or recomendations regarding the front suspension bushings.
I dunno if I should get the standard rubber ones or the polygraphite ones.
My garrage buddy tells me that I should just get the less expensive standard rubber ones unless I'm going racing, which I'm not.
On the other hand the improoved handlling from the poly bushings would be recognizable during normal driving too, right?
I have my eyes on P-S-T bushings, any experience with their product?
Thanks,
Capsule
"Ya Gotta Have BIG Ones!"
http://www.speeddemons.com
http://www.speeddemons.com
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patrick
- GTX (RS)
- Posts: 293
- Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:21 pm
- My Cars: 1973 Road Runner 440/4 speed
- Location: 92508
This topic has been discussed in-depth on many-a-forums. The concensus is to either go with Moog parts (Firm Feel is a great source) for all rubber, or any company for poly since all bushings are the same, whether they're called "polyurethrane" or "polygraphite" or "poly-by-golly", and if you go with poly to use rubber on the lower-control arm bushings, or get the extra piece from Firm Feel if you use poly on the LCA.
http://www.firmfeel.com/adjstrut_b.htm
http://www.firmfeel.com/adjstrut_b.htm
100% Death Proof
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CtownRunner
- GTX (RS)
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Cleveland, the North Coast
It used to be we could go down to the parts counter and ask for about anything for your beloved Mopar and be reasonably confident we would receive a quality part. Well, at least some of us can remember that far back. Today’s global economy and increasing pressure to make the stock holders happy has caused corners to be cut. Even some of the brands we once considered top tier have fallen in quality. Enter Just Suspension.
Just Suspension specializes in, well... suspensions. While they do provide parts for those other brands, they really cater to Mopars, including C Bodies. Most of their suspension parts are custom built to their own design and specs in the Midwest, yeah, the USA!
In an effort to raise awareness of quality, safety and the value of their parts, they have provided some cut away images. They regularly purchase and dissect competitor’s parts to make sure their designs are top notch. Below are the cut aways of their upper ball joint for a C Body and the current Moog part. Note that the pictured Moog design is the same thing they are currently seeing in other no name Chinese parts.
Here is the assembled cut away.
Original 5 megapixel image - 768kb
And disassembled.
Original 5 megapixel image - 723kb
At first glance, it might be hard to spot the superior design, it was for me. That was until the materials were explained. The top unit is the Just Suspension part and the lower is the Moog part. Here is a further breakdown of the parts.
Full resolution PDF - 471kb
Just Suspension has provided the following technical points:
1) JS fully machines the cases internally and externally, not just the wear surface. This makes for more precise fitment into the control arms (upper) or spindle (lower).
2) Only the wear surface of the JS part is heat-treated (the blue part), whereas other typical BJ's go the cheap route and heat treat the entire case. The benefit is that the non-heat treated areas (the control arm mounting areas) remain malleable and won't crack. This helps the ball joint stay in place, and keeps the arm from cracking.
3) The JS Ball-studs have twice the number of grease journals vs. the other, enabling more consistent lubrication.
4) JS uses spring steel pre-load springs & washers, whereas the other uses plastic. (these parts are the flat cupped metal washers on the JS part and the big black doughnut on the other). Further, JS has a machined ball stud seat (the part between the top of the ball stud and the flat cupped spring washers). These parts are the most important pieces in the ball joint. The spring steel spring-washers provide more durable and consistent pressure on the ball stud as the suspension travels. Also, the ball stud seat concentrates that pressure on the central rotating axis of the stud, reducing friction and making the travel of the stud more consistent throughout the range. The plastic doughnut covers the entire upper surface of the ball joint, increasing friction and actually resisting movement as pressure increases. It also wears out faster.
The net result is that the plastic tensioner will provide mushier & less precise handling and ride characteristics. That will require more steering inputs/changes, cause a more vague/wallowy ride, and slow slalom times due to slower suspension reactions. In essence, the JS design makes the car feel and perform more like a newer vehicle.
5) JS seals the case with an o-ring (making it water tight), whereas the other simply knurls the case closed (allowing water to seep in).
6) The JS grease zerk mounts directly to the ball stud seat (it pokes up through the larger opening in the case seal). The other simply has a hole in the case seal. This means the JS design allows grease to travel directly to the ball stud surface and then squishes around the case. The other has to squish around the rubber doughnut and through the center hole to finally arrive at the ball stud.
Go to www.cbodydrydock.com
The home page will have all the detail including the picures that did not make it here.
Just Suspension specializes in, well... suspensions. While they do provide parts for those other brands, they really cater to Mopars, including C Bodies. Most of their suspension parts are custom built to their own design and specs in the Midwest, yeah, the USA!
In an effort to raise awareness of quality, safety and the value of their parts, they have provided some cut away images. They regularly purchase and dissect competitor’s parts to make sure their designs are top notch. Below are the cut aways of their upper ball joint for a C Body and the current Moog part. Note that the pictured Moog design is the same thing they are currently seeing in other no name Chinese parts.
Here is the assembled cut away.
Original 5 megapixel image - 768kb
And disassembled.
Original 5 megapixel image - 723kb
At first glance, it might be hard to spot the superior design, it was for me. That was until the materials were explained. The top unit is the Just Suspension part and the lower is the Moog part. Here is a further breakdown of the parts.
Full resolution PDF - 471kb
Just Suspension has provided the following technical points:
1) JS fully machines the cases internally and externally, not just the wear surface. This makes for more precise fitment into the control arms (upper) or spindle (lower).
2) Only the wear surface of the JS part is heat-treated (the blue part), whereas other typical BJ's go the cheap route and heat treat the entire case. The benefit is that the non-heat treated areas (the control arm mounting areas) remain malleable and won't crack. This helps the ball joint stay in place, and keeps the arm from cracking.
3) The JS Ball-studs have twice the number of grease journals vs. the other, enabling more consistent lubrication.
4) JS uses spring steel pre-load springs & washers, whereas the other uses plastic. (these parts are the flat cupped metal washers on the JS part and the big black doughnut on the other). Further, JS has a machined ball stud seat (the part between the top of the ball stud and the flat cupped spring washers). These parts are the most important pieces in the ball joint. The spring steel spring-washers provide more durable and consistent pressure on the ball stud as the suspension travels. Also, the ball stud seat concentrates that pressure on the central rotating axis of the stud, reducing friction and making the travel of the stud more consistent throughout the range. The plastic doughnut covers the entire upper surface of the ball joint, increasing friction and actually resisting movement as pressure increases. It also wears out faster.
The net result is that the plastic tensioner will provide mushier & less precise handling and ride characteristics. That will require more steering inputs/changes, cause a more vague/wallowy ride, and slow slalom times due to slower suspension reactions. In essence, the JS design makes the car feel and perform more like a newer vehicle.
5) JS seals the case with an o-ring (making it water tight), whereas the other simply knurls the case closed (allowing water to seep in).
6) The JS grease zerk mounts directly to the ball stud seat (it pokes up through the larger opening in the case seal). The other simply has a hole in the case seal. This means the JS design allows grease to travel directly to the ball stud surface and then squishes around the case. The other has to squish around the rubber doughnut and through the center hole to finally arrive at the ball stud.
Go to www.cbodydrydock.com
The home page will have all the detail including the picures that did not make it here.
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patrick
- GTX (RS)
- Posts: 293
- Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:21 pm
- My Cars: 1973 Road Runner 440/4 speed
- Location: 92508
Wow, I didn't know there really REALLY was a difference! It seems everyone goes with P-S-T, either because it's cheaper or because it's trendy, and perhaps it's a little sheep mentality too. I know Firm Feel is doing wonders for the Mopar suspension cause, and I know of a few parts I will get from them no matter what, but I had no idea that the parts varied so much! I think I'll have to 
to Just Suspension and get my main kit from them.
to Just Suspension and get my main kit from them.100% Death Proof
Polygraphite
I go with PST, and I've purchased 3 sets over the years. I've never had a bad experience and the one time I needed tech support they were very responsive. Just Suspension is also good, but the last time I bought parts there they completely screwed up my order and I had to return everything.
- Jim
- Jim