Keisler 5 speed conversion

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:04 pm

Well getting the trans dialed in wasn't hard, over coming mis machined parts is where i'm gonna have the issue.

I found a 71SSP that got badly rear ended in an old boneyard in Wapaun. It is avery complete roof A-C pillar and has all the parts except for the switch. It is very rusty and will take a bit of work to get the whole roof panel into shape and working, then of course cutting and replacing the whole roof on the runner.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

farmboy70
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by farmboy70 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:24 pm

The next issue you will find is the third gear won't engage if you are over 4-5000 RPM.
They say the syncro won't allow it to work.
Very annoying, I'm considering going to the Passion trans when he has it all worked out.
Dave
If it was easy everyone would do it!

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Who said that? I am going to talk with Liberty Transmission in MI. They were build a ton of these for hard use. Since I have it apart, now is the time to get it modified to work a right. They have an upgraded trans for 200 over a stock unit that they say shiftsthe way it's expected to. Carbon Fiber Blocker rings, some shifter mods and a couple other things. I am going to talk to them Tuesday and see if they will sell me the time parts and I can install them. I know the bronze blockers do not grab the gearenough to slow it down. That is a big part of the shifting issue. And ANNOYING!!!!! I certainly would havekept my 883 in there if I had any idea this was going to happen.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

farmboy70
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by farmboy70 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:25 pm

I have seen the third gear issue talked about before on Moparts and Cuda /Challenger.
My trans in my Challenger has the third gear issue.
While I like everything else about having the 5 speed that is the biggest thing I don't care for in the Kiesler in my car.

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:15 am

Nice 70, used to have a statutory grape R/T version once upon a time. I like that it burnt orange metallic, very nice color.
I don't know how much Keisler actually does with these transmissions other than put the new shifter on and slap a sticker on it. Everything I see is pretty much Tremec standard TKO 500 issue. If i'm wrong about that let me know, or point me to an article. I'd like to get a reasonable background of any mods they make.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Well got the parts that should fix it ordered yesterday, from liberty gears. Seems the concencus is the stock synchros can't grab the gear fast enough to slow them down. Carbonfiber lined units for 2,3,&4 are on the way with bronze shifter pads and a modified shift rail. We will see.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

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Smellslike1974
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by Smellslike1974 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:23 pm

As much of a pain in the ass it is to ship a transmission youd think theyd make sure it was the right order.My gosh!
"Sunny D"-1974 Plymouth Satellite Sebring With Sundance Packaging

gcoupe72
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by gcoupe72 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:25 pm

Sorry to hear of your problems with the trans.

Was wondering what gear oil you've used, and if it needs to change with the new parts?

Hope it works the new first try! :)

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:07 pm

gcoupe72 wrote:Sorry to hear of your problems with the trans.

Was wondering what gear oil you've used, and if it needs to change with the new parts?

Hope it works the new first try! :)
They specify GM Synchromesh so that's what I use, no change on that. I won't use a full synthetic with roller bearings as it is too slick and the rollers may not roll, and once the wear additives are gone it can be a problem. All the boards say the same thing about these units, the blocker rings don't grab the gear fast enough to slow it down. The carbon fiber linings will take care of that. Won't find out until May though. Salt is out on the roads now. :(
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by 72Rdrnner » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:42 am

I put the Keisler 4 spd OD in my Road Runner to replace the original 727.

I had lot's of "issues" with what was shipped but figured no big deal as I just turned them into "product improvements."

Things like transmission cooler tubes weren't even close to fitting. Might as well have sent straight ones an then I'd bend them. Had flexible ones made at local hose shop.

Shift telex cable was too short...no way it would work with a 6 inch diameter, 360 degree turn to hook it up.

Crossmember didn't even have the hole for the emergency brake cable hook.

No way you could hook the cooler lines to the transmission up. They provided six inch "pigtails" but due to clearance they (a) could not reach lines to transmission (that's why I made up my own) nor (b) be able to connect & disconnect if you have to pull the transmission out.

Fortunately I have (a) two post lift and (b) tall transmission jack or it would have never gone in.

On the plus side, they did work with me a lot. Several components were damaged in shipping and they gave me new ones despite the fact I'd had it for two years before I put it in.

Once I got it in, and tuned up, I LOVE IT! Got stump pulling 1, 2, 3 and the OD means I can cruise at 8000 with only 2500 rpm! In the vernacular it "shits and gits"!

One "product improvement" was to spend the bucks to get a TPS from Holley that bolts right on to my Street Avenger rather than the grab ass one that comes with the kit, using an 18 inch cable and mounting it on the fender!
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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:35 am

Well I wouldn't mind rinkydink stuff like that. When I have tobreak the trans down and replace blocker rings because the unit , as shipped, is not up to the claimed performance, not happy. Especially since it's an extra $650 to correct it.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

72Rdrnner
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by 72Rdrnner » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:55 am

road chicken wrote:Well I wouldn't mind rinkydink stuff like that. When I have tobreak the trans down and replace blocker rings because the unit , as shipped, is not up to the claimed performance, not happy. Especially since it's an extra $650 to correct it.
I'm a little surprised they wouldn't just take the whole shebang back. The have to know that in today's world of forums and the like that dissatisfied customers are going to "get the word out".

You mentioned the drive shaft measuring process that you have to do AFTER the transmission in. I too didn't like that, so I did a "workaround". I simply measured the stock transmission from the bell housing flange to the tail shaft rear seal (that's where they specify to measure) then I did the same on the Keisler unit. The Keisler is longer so then I just did the measurements for the drive shaft on the stock transmission, subtracted the difference and sent that in. I spoke to the tech guy and he verified what I sent in was on the mark of what it should be. They sent the drive shaft and when I got it, I went ahead with the swap and the drive shaft fit perfectly.

I did take the time to (a) take a LOT of pictures of the swap, and (b) write a lengthy review of all the issues I had. Put it on a disk and sent it to them, with suggestions on how they might improve their documentation and instructions. Don't know if the did though.

I'd give them a B- on their documentation compared to other things I have done with after market stuff. Admittedly this was the biggest I'd done.
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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:26 pm

The blocker rings is a design flaw in the transmission itself. Keisler does little more than throw a sticker on it and add it to the kit. So their response was evasive when I was dealing with them. They knew, and thats probably why they don't deal with the tko s anymore. No matter, it's handled now.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by Doright » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:46 pm

My kid wants to put a 5sp behind his 5.7 Hemi and put in my old 73 RR clone, I can tell you that I wont be looking at Kinsler stuff just because of this thread! Good job Kinsler!

These after market Jerks need to realize These are expensive cars any more and the guys playing with them aren't idiots, Heck you sound like your a retired engineer. What I am getting at is you were sold a bolt in kit that needed no cutting and it wasn't! I would have sued right then and there False advertising!

Then You have issues with the thing not shifting right yes I realize you didn't put it in and drive the heck out of it as you needed to start a move and winter coming on, mean while your warranty runs out this sucks.

Nope Kinsler can keep there junk I will look at some thing else!

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road chicken
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Re: Keisler 5 speed conversion

Post by road chicken » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:35 pm

Well they changed the nomenclature to show most cars will need the tunnel modified. The trans is a TKO part so the blockers are a known problem. No matter who the distributor is. There are better transmissions now, so I wouldn't do the tko over the again, not for that price. However, this summer will tell. I will be doing a few short and maybe one long roadtrip with it. The short ones will be 500 or so miles over the weekend. The long from Milwaukee to the Badlands. We will see.
4th generation B bodys- there is no substitute.
68 383, Street Demon 750, RPM top end,484/284/108 poo poo cam "-5 spd 4:10 SG, 4whl disk, Helwig Anti-Sway, Poly bushings,Firm Feel Box, HD Linkage, 1" t-bars, 7 leafs Springs

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