Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

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71bird
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 71bird » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:08 pm

Actually it was a good thing that the engine was seized, that kept it off the road, and saved until later. If those are the original starter, and alternator, which you can tell by the date code, DO NOT HAVER SOME LOCAL SHOP REDO THEM, and even if they are the originals, send them to the man that does the stuff for Dixie rest ion parts. They will look like they just left the factory. Great save on the car. Also if you want to do a lot of highway driving, I'd have the trans converted to a Passon overdrive. :)
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csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:11 am

steved wrote:wow...nice car! V21/V25 stripe option is really cool.

I'm in Atlanta. (I think you said you were in birmingham?) feel free to contact me. I built my '71 GTX from next to nothing, and I did all the mechanical work myself. I don't have a numbers matching car, and I was building a driver. It has cost an astronomical amount of money, but i smile and i'm so proud. You'll get there. take your time.

Steve
Hey Steve, yeah, I am in Bham but I work for a big airline that is headquartered south of Atlanta at the airport that I am sure you heard of, so I am at ATL on almost a weekly basis. I would love to come by some day and check out what you have and chat. What part of town are you in?

csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:19 am

71bird wrote:Actually it was a good thing that the engine was seized, that kept it off the road, and saved until later. If those are the original starter, and alternator, which you can tell by the date code, DO NOT HAVER SOME LOCAL SHOP REDO THEM, and even if they are the originals, send them to the man that does the stuff for Dixie rest ion parts. They will look like they just left the factory. Great save on the car. Also if you want to do a lot of highway driving, I'd have the trans converted to a Passon overdrive. :)
Hmm. This is the first advice of this sort that I am hearing - most of the folks I have spoken to have basically said that the following parts are to be discarded and replaced with new ones during the rebuild - pistons (obvious, I guess, if they are going to bore the engine), alternator, coil, oil pump, fuel pump, water pump, starter, bearings, camshaft, springs, rods, and possibly the carburetor.

I guess that brings me to the first of about 100 questions I have: the engine rebuild shop that I think I am going to go with basically told me on the phone that more than likely he is going to recommend just replacing the carb. My cousin said he has had two carbs rebuilt for $200 each, which is a lot less than buying a new one. What is the general consensus? Rebuild the old one or just replace it??

Also, what are the pros and cons of trying to rebuild and repaint the components like the alternator and starter versus just getting new ones??? It's not like the matching numbers from the engine/trans are in the same category as the alternator and starter, right? There aren't numbers to be matched on the ancillary components like the starter, distributor, etc, right?

csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:29 am

So I stopped by a fairly well known restoration outfit in Birmingham today. Originally I wasn't really even going to consider them due to the fact that a good friend (on the wealthy side) had 3 cars done by this place and they cost him about $50-$70K each. Obviously that is not my ball of wax, but I visited them anyway. They actually gave me a good template of what I should try and do on my own vs getting done professionally. They were essentially saying that I indeed am wise to send the engine off to get rebuilt, but while that is out, I should consider getting the body to them so they could sand or soda blast the bottom and engine compartment and paint the bottom and engine compartment as well. This way, the thinking goes, when I am replacing and installing parts, I am attaching them to a solid, new looking, newly painted frame instead of on top of the rust in the pictures I posted. I guess I sort of envision it as a very poor mans rotisserie cleaning/painting of the underside and engine compartment.

They essentially told me that if I could clear out all of the remaining wires and components from the engine compartment and get it towed to them, they would blast it clean and paint the bottom and engine compartment epoxy black to protect it from rust for around $1200. If I were to have them get the compartment and lower hood red like I would like to paint the rest of the car, it would probably jack it up another $500.

Thoughts?? This really addressed one of my main concerns, which was how to try and get rid of all the rust and chipped paint so I could have a good, clean, starting point to start replacing parts and to install the trans and motor into. My cousin said I could just rent a sandblasted and get a case of Krylon paint cans and do it myself, but I am wondering if for $2000ish this isn't something I should just have done.

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72RoadRunnerGTX
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 72RoadRunnerGTX » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:58 am

I see a lot of very rare ’72 440 HP parts there, especially the Holley 4160. Should be list number R-6254A or R-6252A, have it correctly rebuilt. If you change it out, save it, very scarce. As for the pictured rust, to correctly repair, there will be some metal replacement, no point in spending a bunch on blasting only. The center firewall plenum drain area is likely rusted through both sides of the firewall, will require some patch work. Drain flap tends to clog, water then collects there. AMD makes lower quarter patch panels and trunk floor extensions for these now. Check the all sub frame rails closely for rust before spending a ton on rust repair.
Last edited by 72RoadRunnerGTX on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:23 am

Actually, in zooming in on that picture of the side of the carburetor, you could see the lettering LIST - 6154 printed on the top of it. So you are correct. You are saying this is a rare part that definitely should be rebuilt and kept?

71bird
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 71bird » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:49 am

I would inspect everything, and if the date codes jive with the build date of the car, then keep those parts. The starter, and alt have a date code that should be close to when the car was built. Never have them blasted it will ruin the finish. The man that is king in the business of restoring them is in South Carolina. People that say just get rid of them, and replace are probably Chevy people. If those are the original parts it makes the car more valuable. The more of the original stuff that you can reuse the better.
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72RoadRunnerGTX
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 72RoadRunnerGTX » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:45 am

Looks like 6254 to me, indeed very rare. Remember only 212 four speeds on the Plymouth side that year, similar number for Dodge, would have had that carburetor originally. Close up also reveals quite a bit of rust and corrosion, not sure it is rebuildable in a standard way, may require a restoration. If you are wanting to drive it, may be better off running something else. Whatever you do, don’t throw it away.
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by moparite » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:02 pm

What are your plans for the car? Are you wanting to restore it to factory original or a good street driver on the weekends? As for the body i don't think it will take to much to repair the rust issues. Use a epoxy primer on all bare metal. It's a superior product to conventional primers. What head castings do you have? The 906's where the best flowing but didn't have hardened seats. 71-72 where transition years so you may or may not have heads with hardened seats. Hardened valve seats are required for today's gas. Back then gas had lead in witch acted as a lubricant so they weren't needed.

csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:25 pm

moparite wrote:What are your plans for the car? Are you wanting to restore it to factory original or a good street driver on the weekends? As for the body i don't think it will take to much to repair the rust issues. Use a epoxy primer on all bare metal. It's a superior product to conventional primers. What head castings do you have? The 906's where the best flowing but didn't have hardened seats. 71-72 where transition years so you may or may not have heads with hardened seats. Hardened valve seats are required for today's gas. Back then gas had lead in witch acted as a lubricant so they weren't needed.
My plans are to make it a weekend driver, but I obviously would like to keep it as close to factory original as possible, as long as it doesn't blow my budget completely. In other words, yeah, I would rather rebuild the alternator for a few hundred, or whatever, versus just buying a new one for 20% less. Unless the cost is significantly different, I would rather stay original, in general.

I will check out the head castings when I get back home from this trip.

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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 71gtx4404 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:02 am

Looks great glad you where able to rescue it from the other family members who knows what would have happened to it then,where in NY was it hiding all those years I'm in southern NY state,looks like you did a good job of scrounging up all the parts,don't discard any thing until you know fore sure its not a numbers correct date coded rare part for the car & even then still hang on to it.If time permits the body should really be completely taken apart & properly cleaned & preserved,label & document all parts take lots of pictures,its mostly just time & martials lol,you can dissemble & clean/rebuild carb/starter ETC ETC one @ a time during the crappy slow months if you have any there,just don't take it all apart & walk away from it keep moving along & before you know it you will have a completely cleaned/primed preserved body to work with & you will feel much better about it,I know easily said then done but worth the time.

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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by steved » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:10 am

csilko wrote:
steved wrote:wow...nice car! V21/V25 stripe option is really cool.

I'm in Atlanta. (I think you said you were in birmingham?) feel free to contact me. I built my '71 GTX from next to nothing, and I did all the mechanical work myself. I don't have a numbers matching car, and I was building a driver. It has cost an astronomical amount of money, but i smile and i'm so proud. You'll get there. take your time.

Steve
Hey Steve, yeah, I am in Bham but I work for a big airline that is headquartered south of Atlanta at the airport that I am sure you heard of, so I am at ATL on almost a weekly basis. I would love to come by some day and check out what you have and chat. What part of town are you in?
I'm in Lawrenceville, in the NE suburbs...

sjd
1971 GTX, GY9 Tawny Gold.

csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:21 am

Cool, I went to college with a good friend from Lawrenceville - nice area. Also have a good friend in Flowery Branch not too far.

csilko
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by csilko » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:34 am

OK, so the general consensus is to get the original carb, starter, alternator, radiator, distributor, and coil rebuilt to be installed on the rebuilt engine, right? What about the fuel, oil and water pump??? I suppose each of these components will have to be mailed off to a separate expert who specializes in rebuilding those particular components? Who was the guy in South Carolina that someone mentioned? How much of a premium am I looking at to rebuild these parts as opposed to going with new components?

Thanks for the tips so far. So I think this is my big picture plan and sequence of events. Let me know how logical this sounds:

1. Remove the remaining wires, components, brake and fuel lines from the engine compartment and underside (including shocks) and bring the car to the restoration place to be sand blasted underneath and in the engine compartment and to paint the engine compartment.

2. After getting the car back, re-install the master cylinder, brake lines, brake pads, and everything else associated with the brakes.

3. Replace the fuel lines and fuel tank.

4. Replace the other engine compartment components that would have been removed - wiper motor, voltage regulator, horn, air grabber motor, headlight wires, etc.

**At some point, I will drop the engine off to start its 2-3 month lead time on being rebuilt. I didn't want to get it done first in order to give myself plenty of time to get the frame and engine compartment ready for it.

5. Install the transmission and engine

6. (possibly earlier while working on brakes) Replace any suspension bearings/bushings/components.

7. Way down the road - get the exterior rust body work done and get a nice paint job after I have saved up enough.

Again, this will be my first time taking on a massive project like this, and I am just trying to sort out in my nugget the best sequence to do each task and well as trying to find an economical way to make it a respectable looking driver (i.e. sandblasting the underside as opposed to a full up rotisserie).

As always, I appreciate the thoughts and welcome the comments.

71bird
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Re: Inherited 1972 Roadrunner/GTX 440

Post by 71bird » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:40 pm

Call Dixie restoration parts to get the starter, and alt mans name, and number. How do you plan on having the bottom blasted without turning the body up on it's side? At that point, I think I'd take the K frame off, and put it on a rotisserie to do that. And on the sand blast part, make sure they know what their doing cause it's real easy to ruin the sheet metal if they don't know. And what ever, take it to somebody that is familiar with these cars, and not somebody that only does Chivys.
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