Original Restoration Reference Thread

[pats71]

Figured I'd start this thread as a good reference point for concourse or original restoration pictures and information for our 71-74 b-bodies. I myself am hunting for reference pictures and other information that will make my restoration a little easier for my 71' Roadrunner.

So I'll kick this off. I was cruising eBay and found a supposed 1971 Plymouth GTX that has undergone a concourse restoration. The posting has quite a few pics and I figured that the GTX and Roadrunner probably shared a lot of similarities with the undercarriage finishes and engine bay appearances. I'd like to hear comments and opinions on the pics and the quality of the restoration, since I'm saving these pics as references.

Some questions I have are what is the tape that is going around the axle tube? Does the front steering components look to have the correct finishes with the orange paint and what not? Lastly, my roadrunner is a manual drum brake car like this GTX. Am I human for being scared of the thought of running manual drum brakes with polyglas tires that resemble my trailers tires? Figure I'm a young gun, and the thought does cause some sweat even though I was not around during that time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/National ... 3cb9c733d3

[gcoupe72]

I've spent some time thinking on the drum brake issue. When these cars were new or almost new, the brakes were fine for "normal" driving. I think the average self-taught mechanic today, has more experience with, and better luck with front discs. But, If it's important to you to have the car "as built", then keep the drums.
Replacing (correctly) all the springs, and hardware is a good first step. Having the drums "trued" by someone who knows what they're doing will also help a lot. Lastly, look for better quality lining materials, they're out there. Getting it all back together correctly can be a challenge. The last person to work on the brakes may have left parts out, installed them wrong, or even mixed them up, left for right, etc.
Take your time, purchase some of the special drum brake service tools, they work much better than pliers and screwdrivers, and aren't expensive!
Don't forget to adjust them! Since few of us drive these cars every day, adjusting them doesn't have to be done very often.
Now I don't have any recent experience with bias tires on the street, I have a lot of experience with bias road racing tires, and prefer them. So I'd say have a set with your rallye or road wheels for car shows, and if you don't like the way the car feels, then get some radials on another set of wheels for "fun" driving.
I test drove a nice '66 Dart a couple of years ago. The owner who looked about 35 or so, apologized for the "lousy drum brakes" I got to the first stop sign, and almost could'nt! The front brakes weren't working at all, but the cars owner thought "all drum brakes are like that" He was wrong! he just didn't have any experience with properly working drums.

[Eric]

Haven't looked closely at the photos of the car yet, but here's a few comments:

Dana rears had the part number on a white decal applied around the tube. This would not be correct for 8 3/4 rears.

A lot of cars came originally with 4 wheel drums. Back in the day, everyone else had them too, and driving habits reflected that. Today, with the way a lot of people drive, it's a lot more scary to have drums on all 4 wheels. My first road runner had that setup, and I remember having to anticipate stops ahead of time (and I had a few close calls). Also, drums will fade more with repeated use.

Not that it's not a good idea to look at correctly restored vehicles for reference, but be careful to note that your car may be different because of different build plants and being built at different times during the production year. There were changes early (in the month of September), in January 71, and between April and May 71.

[Ronnman]

Nicely detailed car. I see one thing that does not match, the rear valance and the machine gun tips. I believe the valance should have the cutouts to allow the tips to fit futher up or turn down eshaust pipes with the valance on the car.

[RS23U1E]

Good idea with the reference thread Ronman. I too think a library of reference resto pics would be a good addition to this forum. Maybe we can put it in the image gallery... uh, oh, um yeah.

Here is a place where there is a lot of reference - not specific to our models, but still a great resource.

http://www.iccahome.org/

Unfortunately those ebay links will be non-functional someday - so if good examples are available I wonder if it would be better to post up pics rather than links. You folks viewing this from the future will appreciate it.

[Eric]

It is a very nice car, and it's been for sale for quite awhile. I wouldn't criticise it if someone hadn't asked. I believe the owner is on moparts, but not sure if he's a member here too. If it's a nest member's car, my apoligies.

A few observations,not to be considered comprehensive:

engine compartment
-I do not believe the heater hose metal strap is correct for this car. I've only seen them on A/C cars
- the stamping color and font on the voltage regulator is not correct
- I've not seen an original hood latch mechanism plated in gold cad. I believe it should be silver cad
- oil dipstick tube, I've not seen an original with a black handle

body
- all 71 GTXs should have a body side pinstripe. it appears from the photos that it's missing on this one.
- as mentioned already, all brite exhaust tip cars had half round cutouts in the rear valance
- rallye wheel trim rings should have a buffed finish, polished is correct for a 70 car
- the back side of rallye wheels should be black, not argent

under the car
- the orange paint on the 4spd bellhousing would not have covered the assembly. The goal was to paint the engine and the bellhousing got some overspray, as it was attached when the engine was painted.
- exhaust tips are the longer charger tips, plymouth tips should be shorter
- rubber brake line appears to be a parts counter purchase (incorrect crimpings at the fittings and wrong label/stamping on the hose)

[71Beeper]

Wow Eric, that's alot of info you gave there based on your observations.
My hat's off to ya!!
This site is an excellent source of info I'll use while building my Clone Runner.

[rr6pak]

I agree with everything Eric said. Also, the front suspension components. I think they went overboard on the paint dabs. Seems there's too much and too many paint marks. IMOP, I dont think the factory had the time to sit there and put different color paint marks all over a car as it is coming down the line

Yes, that car has been for sale for awhile now. He is on moparts and wants a pretty penny for it. If I remember right, I think he wants somewhere in the $50,000-$60,000 range or more. I think its overpriced.

[71rm23]

Hi guys,

Eric, I wanted to discuss with you about the band on the heater hoses. Somehow, I figured this subject would come up before I was able to talk to you. I know we discussed this at Carlisle at some length. However, after the show, I checked several cars. Two at another persons place and one at my place. Mind you, these were ALL St. Louis cars. They all had indentations on the ORIGINAL heater hoses that clearly reflected the band was on there---one car still had the band on it. Two of the cars were relatively early built and one was I believe March. All cars non A/C. I cannot comment on the other two plants.

Jeff

[ILUV72RRs]

What you have to remember about the paint dabs. Is those generally were on the parts to begin with. They didn't paint those on the car as it went down the line. In a lot of cases it was easier to tell guys putting the cars together that the green ones go on this kind of car, and the yellow ones go on that kind of car, etc. to speed the assembly process up. So they didn't have to sit there, and read the parts numbers. Made it easier to fill the parts bins the guys were taking the parts from to build the cars. If they even knew how to read! I had a supervisor who worked at St. Louis back then tell me that they repainted over a lot of the parts that came in with their own paint dabs. Because they didn't use the same paint code system as other assembly plants for certain parts. So there can be differences between cars as to when they were made, and also the time of the year due to changes in the system. That's why he always got a chuckle asking him for paint dab information. Finally when it comes to restoring a car. Unless you take it to a really big show where you pay dearly an entry fee to have your car judged to the max. At local shows most judges don't know anything about paint dabs, and what color or where they should be. Or not be. They're lucky if they know if you have the right radiator (part number is visible) in your car, or not. Now you know why guys hate to judge cars. Because after the show someone will always come up and claim they got screwed in the judging. No one wants to admit that something is wrong on their car. It had to be the fault of the judge. Those kind of cars have a lot of money tied up in them.

[rr6pak]

Interesting ILUV72RR's.

[Eric]

Hi guys,

Eric, I wanted to discuss with you about the band on the heater hoses. Somehow, I figured this subject would come up before I was able to talk to you. I know we discussed this at Carlisle at some length. However, after the show, I checked several cars. Two at another persons place and one at my place. Mind you, these were ALL St. Louis cars. They all had indentations on the ORIGINAL heater hoses that clearly reflected the band was on there---one car still had the band on it. Two of the cars were relatively early built and one was I believe March. All cars non A/C. I cannot comment on the other two plants.

Jeff

Jeff - interesting...I have yet to see an original hose car that had the strapss, but I've learned never to say never. I still believe it to be more common to not have the strap.
I've been looking through my photos of survivors, and I've only come up with one that has the stripe on the radiator hose (still visible). I know I've seen others, but no photo proof. You'd probably be better staying with the part number and pentastar on yours for judging. I'll email you the pic later.

[71rm23]

Thanks Eric. I need to research this some more obviously. You know those darn anomalies with the St. Louis plant!

Jeff