How Long Should You Keep a Car?

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DixieSatellite
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How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by DixieSatellite » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:45 am

One of the most interesting features of a road-trip or conversations whenever enthusiasts get together has to be the reports / sightings of cars out and about and / or a tucked away off the road, negelected or generally waiting for attention. Generally this is accompanied by a automatic perception that unless it is stripped, primered and painted, or surrounded by a flurry of feverish mechanical activity, the owner is not going to do anything with them. We all know that unloved cars can deteriorate very quickly to the point where they become uneconomical to salvage them and unfortunately there is not a great deal you can do about that. Opinions on said cars will range from mild interest to righteous indignation and there are likely some individuals (not on this board of course :-)) whose rhetoric even hints at a perceived right to take matters into their own hand as self-appointed guardians of the Mopar faith and perform some kind of 'intervention' to ‘rescue’ a vehicle before it falls even further into a state of disrepair. These cars are automatically deemed to be ‘rotting away’, or being hoarded by some selfish SOB ‘ who just won’t get with the program and sell’, further elevating the overall level of frothiness. This self-righteous indignation becomes even more entertaining when 2 posts later, the discussion then turns to how plans for said original vehicle (once liberated) might include wheel tubs / 360 V8 or in the case of a tidy 318 Satellite Sebring, a 440 Roadrunner replica (but just badges and paint, still w/ column shift auto and 318 2-BBL). Worst case, plans for the car might include immediately flipping onto Fleabay, or breaking for spares. Yah, that’s concern alright, but after all by this time it has become ‘your’ car and you are free to do what you want with it, right? Right.

This is great fuel for stories and embellishments - everyone seems to know of some old guy w/ a pristine matching numbers '71 GTX or disassembled '71 Hemi Roadrunner that he (selfishly) just won’t sell, or a mint one owner ’66 GTX tucked away in an unknown barn since ’68 when some mother’s son did not come back from Vietnam (such silly sentimental attachment indeed) and a general mood of indignation that these cars are being unfairly hoarded and deprived from a loving enthusiast’s enjoyment and denying their birthright as ‘true enthusiasts’ (OK, I am going a bit overboard here, but you get the picture). The bitter irony is, of course, that many of these ‘true enthusiasts’ also expect to liberate said 'treasures' for pennies on the $, like it is still the 1980s.

I don’t really blame the owners. I don’t really blame the hunters. Nobody likes to see something going to waste, but you can only speculate on the real reasons these cars are where they are and in the condition they are in and how they got there in the first place. I am one of these owners myself and I would be curious to know how many times these same owners have been approached by ‘enthusiasts’ and non-enthusiasts alike looking to do them a ‘favor’ by taking these ‘treasures’ off their hands. I have been in the same position w / my ’72 Plymouth SSP. The first 20 times I was polite, which was not always the case with those doing the asking – they ranged from general affability to downright patronizing and even aggressive. After that, I became a little less friendly with each enquiry. One time a guy pulled up to me, rolled down his window, sized me and the car up and shouted ‘I’ll take it off your hands for $2000’, like it was a done deal and he was doing me this huge favour. My reply of ‘Err, no, you won’t’ , obviously did not sit well and he got all pissy, uttered a couple of insults under his breath (like I had obviously been wasting his time) and drove off. Or the time some guy asked me if it was a 318 as he was looking for a 318 Plymouth and I told him 1/ that's nice, but it was not for sale and 2/ no, it was a 400 and he snorted ’Liar, that car didn’t come w/ a 400’. WTF is wrong w/ people. Many posts may go on to comment about how cars are spotted around backs of houses / sheds, but owners are not contactable etc., or are unfriendly to treasure hunters knocking on their doors. Hardly surprising really, if you know the plan is to pick their cars up for pennies on the $. It does matter how you engage someone - people may not necessarily know a great deal about their cars, but they sure as hell can tell if / when they are being talked down to.

As far the sentimental attachment is concerned, it plays a big role and we should all be thankful that it does, as this is why you have survivors in the first place (the second reason is apathy). Sure, they may not be all pristine, daily drivers or in the condition approved by our self-appointed guardians (see above), but I can gay-ron-tee that the cars which had zero sentimental attachment have long since been turned into beer cans in years gone by and are gone for good. Besides, why the double standard? If you have a car and you want to paint it pink and bolt a whale-tail to it, there is a never ending chorus of ‘it’s you car, do what you want with it”, no matter how dubious or questionable the taste or practicality of these mods (and rightly so). But there is double standard when it comes to stored cars. Sure, we may not like it, but ultimately the car belongs to the owner and he / she gets to do what he / she wants with, including letting it settle until there is no longer any car left to fix.

Unless you are flush w/ cash (which, let’s face it, if you on this board driving 30-plus year old Mopars in various states of repair, is a pretty good indication you are not), most people have to plan and build according to their means. Some people have mad skillz (heh, I just wanted to write that) and access to equipment / time, and their build progresses at a very healthy pace. Others have to take the longer term approach and / or have to farm out piece-meal according to their means, which can add years to the project. You just don’t know what the plan is and to take a position that ‘you should sell it for others to enjoy’ is in many ways as selfish as the perceived hoarding of said cars. Unless you know the circumstances, you don’t really know what the motivation is. Granted, there will always be those who take on more than they can handle, but like it or not, similar rules apply. It remains their car.

I am just getting around to completing my SSP after 20 years. That’s right, 20 *****ing years. Did I want / expect it to take 20 years? No, of course not, but life has a habit of getting in the way and changing your plans. Back in in ‘92~’93 with a very young family and unstable work situation, it would have been totally irresponsible to spend time / money (neither of which I had) needed to make it the car I wanted it to be. I had 2 options - either sell it, or bide my time and wait. I chose to wait. I came close to selling a couple of times, but more out of necessity – at one point in ’96 I was down to our very last $2000 and w/ the rego / docs in the glove-box, she was ready to go to the first buyer who made a decent offer. But circumstances changed (luckily), the car was garaged, was not really costing me anything and, most importantly, Mrs. Satellite asked the question “if you sell it, will you really be able to find another one like it?” Year after year, we would go back at Xmas to visit family. The garage was a welcome sanctuary from the kitchen, where Mrs. Satellite and my sister-in-law could be heard trading insults good-naturedly (well, semi-good naturedly, anyway) on their respective cooking skills. I would make my way out to the garage, determined this year to let common sense prevail, weigh up what needed to be done, how much it would cost to complete and whether it wasn’t time to pull the pin and let her go. And each year without fail I have pulled off the dust cover, popped the hood to look over the 400-4BBL (now correct Chrysler blue w/ bright orange dual-snorkel aircleaner), stepped back to admire those beautiful B-body lines and sharp chrome Magnum 500s, opened the door, slipped into the familiar driving seat, placed my hands on the Tuff wheel and Slap-Stik T-bar….. and fallen in love all over again. There then followed the ritual of planning (i.e. dreaming) of the work that needed doing, getting the car running, pulling the car out and listening for the slight misfire due to a burnt valve on number 8 (something the full engine rebuild was going to take care of), but nevertheless pleased at the Zeigeist I had managed to keep all these years, w/ the still crisply folded (though now somewhat out-of-date) AAA maps of our 1991/ 1992 cross-country road trips (New Mexico / Arizona / Nevada etc.). in the glove box. I even found our missing tape (hah) of The Rolling Stones ‘Goatshead Soup’ still in the deck. The Aviation School '91/92 Parking permit from Tempe, Arizona is still crisp and clear on the windshield.

So what would have happened if I had not been so ‘selfish’ and sold it to someone else to ‘enjoy’? With the buyer having no particular attachment to the car, I am guessing the following would have happened, especially in the mid-90s – 1/ it would have been flipped / sold on, 2/ it would have been cloned (badly) into a ’72 Road Runner (as even real RRs were not fetching great money at the time) or 3/ (most likely) it would have been parted out for the 400-4BBL / Rallye Dash or made into a ‘drag’ car etc. I decided to keep it as even back then survivor cars were already starting to disappear. During our (2) cross country trips in ‘91/’92, you saw a handful of these cars on the road. Now you see none.

My ’72 Satellite has had all the major mechanical work done, has a pumped (factory correct) engine (30% power increase / full transmission rebuild / full suspension / rebuild / engine bay / undercarriage detailing / factory air / hi-perf cooling system, but all designed to appear factory. The V8 burble and crackle through the factory twin system is like a ****ing symphony. It goes in for full-interior this May and on to finish up the bodywork in 2012. I am going to try to drive it to Chryslers at Carlisle if I can get the time off work and will then for all intents and purposes, consider it complete. As many SSP owners will attest, so many of these cars have now been scrapped / wrecked / cloned to RR / GTX that it is rare to see an actual genuine ’72 SSP. Getting to share it w/ others will be the best part of all and knowing the last 20 years of it history is an added bonus (sentimentality included). But without that sentimentality, isn’t it really 'just a car'?

Ian B.
'72 Plymouth Satellite Sebring Plus 400-4BBL

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Smellslike1974
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by Smellslike1974 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:37 am

I totally agree with everything you said.I think most people just have cars like these(and not just mopars) just to have them,just to say at a car show when they overhear two guys are talking about a certain car,they lean in and say-"Yeah I gotta one of these at home,no its not for sale."Sometimes talk like they work on them but have never touched It In years.Just to bring It up In conversation to get attention.Sure these people can get the attention from owning one of these cars but they will never get the satisfaction of working on them.Of being a true car owner.Spending entire days working on your car,making It your own.Remembering how It used to be,how much fun you had,and thinking into the future how much more fun you will have.Some people see these cars as nuts and bolts and dollar signs,which,they can,its up to them.On the other hand,owners like me,see these cars as something more.Numerous times I have also went Into my garage and stood staring at my car feeling guilty.Id walk around talking to It.A car Is a car,but when you work on It and make It your own.Your creating a personality for It.

Its very unfortunate that people neglect cars like ours,but whats really said Is they have the cars,and aren't experiencing the pleasures of owning them like we are.
"Sunny D"-1974 Plymouth Satellite Sebring With Sundance Packaging

72Satellite440
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by 72Satellite440 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:17 am

I like what both of you said.
Not being around when these cars were around I feel left out cause they are so much easier to take care of /diagnose than todays vehicles. Im from gen X and I dont plan to make my car a clone but will Mod it to what I want since the org.eqip wasnt there (ex. 440 engine)and im just happy that this vehicle got a second chance unlike so many other people my age that would be happy with a plymouth neon.
Wish more people would realize giving these cars their own personality has such great rewards for you and your car.

72Satellite440-Dan
72-SaTeLliTe440-Dan

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EDGEFIND
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by EDGEFIND » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:18 am

I love my cars. They are in sad states at the moment, but I'll never give them up unless I absolutely have to. I have plans, unfortunately, just not much money at the moment. Family takes priority for me so if I have to, I'll consider it but in the meantime, I keep my cars covered and put away from ny prying eyes. As a kid, my '71 SSP sat out in my parents' driveway and we had someone stopping at least once week. It was insane. Sometimes, they were just folks wanting to talk old mopars which was cool but we always had the lowballing offermakers as well and, as mentioned, it seemed disrespectful after expressing that the car was not for sale multiple times. You'll have that, I guess. I mean, really, our cars are AWESOME. Who wouldn't want them? Unfortunately, everyone has an opinion.....

73nohemi
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by 73nohemi » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:43 pm

I drive my roadrunner all over even though she needs body work she still turns heads this one guy is bugging me to sell her to him because him and I found out his dad bought her new in October 72 he told me alot about the history of the car including what happened to the factory hood tach thats why i had to buy one for her. I dont plan on selling her any time soon. I have driven her to Washington state 7 times, Las Vegas 6 times, Moab 1, and Yellowstone 1. And all over Utah Idaho and Wyoming.

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moparmike
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by moparmike » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:34 am

Many of these guys ran their cars in the glory years and I think when the odd time they look at the rooting shell it brings back memories for them. They go to car shows and brag that they OWN one. These guys used to bother me until I realized that just because they have not restored it does not mean they are not a car buff its just that their glory days are over but can't let go of their memories. It is a shame to see cars rot away but what can you do.

Remember one of my old posts described a guy I know that has a HEMI GTX and a orig 383 roadrunner just sitting in an old barn. Funny thing is that he loves to talk about the old time and he has become a real source for locating parts and general car knowledge. Anyway I am always going to try and get that hemi GTX from this guy....you have to stay on these guys or the next thing you know they pass away and the car is gone for ever
Sometimes I get to feeling that if Xmas, Fathers Day and my Birthday did not exist, then aftershave too would not exist.

++Sebring++
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Re: How Long Should You Keep a Car?

Post by ++Sebring++ » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:37 am

Hmmmn, tricky subject. I've owned a fair amount of Mopars, mostly from the 70's / late 60's. Some i bought because they were rare, and i wanted "something different" [ 300 Hurst / Apsen Super Coupe ].
Nearly every car, when i sold it, had been improved in at least some small mechanical way from when i bought it. But outside the Mopar faithfull who even recognizes a 300 Hurst or gives a 2nd thought about one ?

If you ask 100 people walking down the street, where they prioritize owning an old car, most will not give a hoot. Maybe 10 will be enthusiasts. Maybe 5 will actually own one.

I was previously guilty of being a data plate snob i guess. If it wasn't set up with the paint / motor / and options it came from the factory with, i thought it a lesser car. Well 20+ years of being involved with cars and spending a big portion of income on them has tended to change that attitude.

But i can understand peoples indignation that a car is not being "treated well"....
The original poster may have had his car immobile for the better part of 2 decades... But he kept it indoors and covered ! What gets me is the fellow who has his old car on the side of the house, rotting + rusting away, window open, who either has "big plans" or won't sell it to someone with the means to rejuvinate it.... When said owner will not even buy the thing a car cover. If your not willing to drop $ 200 dollars on a decent car cover,and you've owned it for years, than either your intentions of "fixing it up" really aren't genuine, or you can't manage to put off other gratification [ coffee / smokes / cable TV / restaurants / etc ] enough to save a bit of money, than how will the person ever come up with $ 5000 for body and paint work , or even $ 1000 dollars to get it roadworthy ?

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