Road Runner Nest

Here's a fender tag and broadcast sheet from a 71 GTX on ebay
Rather than just me tracking it, I thought I'd get it out there for everyone who records these things so hopefully when it goes on a fake car in the future we'll all know the truth about it and no one gets burned...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... :B:EF:US:2

VIN looks like RS23U1G149861

He actually got some offers for it!

I have no problem with clones but, adding a fender tag and broadcast sheet is just plain wrong and illegal!!

Eric, I saved the pic of the tag to my computer so that I could blow it up. It looks to me like it was built on B24 which would be Nov. 24. Since mine is C02 (dec. 2) and my vin is 153641, I think you're close on the vin for this car. It looks like 149061 to me.

at least it aint the VIN tag as well....then I would have it reported....

This is a tough call. I think if someone rebodies a Satellite from a GTX VIN ID and they state they have done so, I don't mind it. Although I suppose it is illegal to do.

I've had a friend try to correctly restore a car that was a complete basket case. It needed new quarters, fenders, frame rails, front and rear floor pans, new roof, hood, trunk lid and on & on.

By the end of the restoration he had spent $45,000 and there was probably less than 10% original metal on the body.

With so much of the original metal being replaced that I almost felt it would have been just as legitimate or illegitimate as putting the tags on a new body. It would be a lot cheaper and much more structurally sound as well.

It's a shame to think that a rare car that is beyond restoration should never resurface again in any form. Unfortunately the reality is that unscrupulous sellers will try to sell them as legit cars.

orangerunner wrote:This is a tough call. I think if someone rebodies a Satellite from a GTX VIN ID and they state they have done so, I don't mind it. Although I suppose it is illegal to do.

The problem is the guy that buys the car after it has changed hands a couple of times an is being passed off as a real GTX. Like it or not, the fact that it has an RS or RM (or a V or R engine code) in the VIN adds value. Rebodying a car is an attempt to deceive and cheat somone. Otherwise, why not just make a clone with the original Satellite VIN...

I completely understand the ethics of why it shouldn't be done. When someone makes a fake car convincingly real, this can create a lot of distrust in the hobby.

At the same time I can understand that it's different to want to re-create a car that actually existed and having the proof by means of the original fender tag or build sheet than it is to simply clone a Satellite and put on whatever random options and colour combos you desire.

If sellers were honest about this approach, I personally wouldn't be completely opposed to it.

I struggled with the cloning issue on the 74 Sat I'm rebuilding but I soon came to the realization that a Satellite is just as cool a car as the Road Runner. Of course with all the modifications I'm planning, the Sat I own won't be factory. Kind of a "let's keep it a Satellite, but let's make it a Serious sleeper."

And Gee, this way when the Satellite is finished, I've gained enough experience to go ahead and buy that 72 Road Runner sitting in the scrap yard and start in on that!

There is a whole lotta time involved with swapping VINs from one car to another....JAIL TIME!

Instead of licence plates you can stamp vin plates

Here is the documentation and the link

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[wais.access.gpo.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 20, 2004]
[Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between
January 20, 2004 and December 23, 2004]
[CITE: 18USC511]


TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 25--COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY

Sec. 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification
numbers

(a) A person who--
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an
identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle,
knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or
device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle
Theft Prevention Act,

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or
both.
(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in
paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the
vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection
are--
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle
demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to
such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for
the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number
for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;
and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a
decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor
Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the
motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with
or alter the decal or device by--
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to
implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

(c) As used in this section, the term--
(1) ``identification number'' means a number or symbol that is
inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter
301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;
(2) ``motor vehicle'' has the meaning given that term in section
32101 of title 49;
(3) ``motor vehicle demolisher'' means a person, including any
motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged
in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to
metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle
or a motor vehicle part;
(4) ``motor vehicle scrap processor'' means a person--
(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor
vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap
for recycling;
(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process
metallic scrap into prepared grades; and
(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;

but such term does not include any activity of any such person
relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part
as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.

(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term
``tampers with'' includes covering a program decal or device affixed to
a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for
the purpose of obstructing its visibility.

(Added Pub. L. 98-547, title II, Sec. 201(a), Oct. 25, 1984, 98 Stat.
2768; amended Pub. L. 103-272, Sec. 5(e)(3), July 5, 1994, 108 Stat.
1373; Pub. L. 103-322, title XXII, Sec. 220003(a)-(c), Sept. 13, 1994,
108 Stat. 2076, 2077; Pub. L. 104-294, title VI, Sec. 604(b)(8), Oct.
11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3507.)

References in Text

The Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, referred to in subsecs.
(a)(2), (b)(2)(D), and (d), is title XXII of Pub. L. 103-322, Sept. 13,
1994, 108 Stat. 2074, which enacted section 511A of this title and
section 14171 of Title 42, The Public Health and Welfare, amended this
section, and enacted provisions set out as a note under section 13701 of
Title 42. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see Short
Title note set out under section 13701 of Title 42 and Tables.

Codification

Another section 511 was renumbered section 513 of this title.


Amendments

1996--Subsec. (b)(2)(D). Pub. L. 104-294 realigned margins.
1994--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 220003(a), amended subsec.
(a) generally. Prior to amendment, subsec. (a) read as follows:
``Whoever knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an
identification number for a motor vehicle, or motor vehicle part, shall
be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.''
Subsec. (b)(2)(D). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 220003(b), added subpar.
(D).
Subsec. (c)(1). Pub. L. 103-272, Sec. 5(e)(3)(A), substituted
``chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49'' for ``the National
Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, or the Motor Vehicle
Information and Cost Savings Act''.
Subsec. (c)(2). Pub. L. 103-272, Sec. 5(e)(3)(B), substituted
``section 32101 of title 49'' for ``section 2 of the Motor Vehicle
Information and Cost Savings Act''.
Subsec. (d). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 220003(c), added subsec. (d).


Effective Date of 1996 Amendment

Amendment by Pub. L. 104-294 effective Sept. 13, 1994, see section
604(d) of Pub. L. 104-294, set out as a note under section 13 of this
title.

Awhile back i notified the dmv about a vin number that did not match the fender.The reply i got was that with cars that old, crashes have been fixed and parts are replaced all the time so the only number that they was concerned about was the dash vin matching the title.

BRIAN

I wasnt saying replacing the tag was illegal. I think we all know why some people sell/buy/produce tags, to rip people off. Especially a tag like that. And then you add in the broadcast sheet...