Factory Original ?

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Discussion on another thread brought back some old memories about working at Chrysler dealers back in the seventies and some of the common practices that took place, and continue to take place at car dealers of all makes even today, that could likely affect the “factory original” state of any so called “survivor”. First let me note I write from first hand experience and not because I had anything to do with setting any of these policies described here.

Not every vehicle was built to order for an individual customer; in fact most cars were built as ordered by the dealers for stock inventory. Dealers would configure options or groups of options available for a particular model line based on past sales histories in their own localized markets. Some cars with configurations hard to sell quickly could remain in stock for many months, driving up flooring costs to the dealer. The practice of swapping equipment/options from one car to another was a common and occurred daily. A potential new car buyer, who didn’t like the color or style of the interior or wants the AM/FM stereo with four speakers rather than the AM radio in the car now, wants rallye wheels as opposed to the magnums that are currently on the car now, was accommodated for at the lowest possible dealer expense. Could have been the other way around, wanted the car but not the stereo and leather seats. Most of the time, that meant the dealer didn’t go order the additional required parts new, it meant the pre-delivery department was tasked to go find another un-sold car in inventory that had the required components to swap them out.

Typically if the customer were charged any additional costs it would have been the difference in the dealer cost of that option or options. Dealer would eat labor costs simply to move the car from inventory. The “donor” car would have its second sticker adjusted to reflect its current configuration and would eventually be sold to a buyer who likely would not have been informed that the car is not as it was manufactured. Other times it may have been necessary to perform another swap to move that car too. Not one time was there even a hint of concern on the part of any dealer or dealer management I ever worked for, that the car is no longer “factory original”.

I personally have swapped hundreds of factory radios, speakers and related wiring harnesses, power antennas, door panels/trim, seats, complete interiors, lighted visor mirrors, you name it if it unbolted, unscrewed or unclipped, it could be swapped. I have always been detail oriented, even as young apprentice Chrysler/Plymouth dealer technician; I can assure you that no one would be able to distinguish any of the swaps I performed from factory installs by appearances only.

[steved]

Sure, BUT the car WAS delivered to the dealer in a state where it WAS factory original, even if the dealer swapped things out, there was a record (the broadcast sheet) of what came on the car from the factory. If your window sticker and broadcast sheet differ, then the car was clearly "adjusted" at the dealer. the person it was adjusted for, bought it, because it was "perfect, except for the fact that it's only AM radio..." "Well," the salesman says "would you drive it away tomorrow if I could get AM/FM for you?"

Sale made...

This would affect the legitimacy of a survivor, unless the documentation with the car supported the fact that such an occurrence happened.

sjd

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

I was mainly addressing the minor undocumented variations and inconsistencies that seem puzzling to some of us in the hobby today who track those things. Not so much configurations that are documented by build sheets, window stickers and fender tags if fortunate enough to have them. Back then, for the most part, owning or working on these cars, If you ran across a build sheet, it was a meaningless scrap of paper left behind by the factory and would usually wind up in the nearest trash can.
Window stickers were tipicatly removed from the windows as a part of final pre-delivery clean up. Without advance request to save, it was just as likely it wound up in the trash as it was in the glove box intact.

[Serious Satellite]

Well, this certainly helps understand how my 1973 Plymouth Roadrunner, am/fm stereo, came with a power antenna when I bought it at repo in 1975. Big debate on my "faulty" memory can be laid to rest. It might not have been "factory" , but it was dealer optioned at least, and that's good enough for me.

LOL

Great article. This is the knd of stuff that keeps me coming back.

[Elvad]

I have heard many of the 1969 Daytona Chargers were unsellable and leftover because of the 'strange' options..some were then converted and sold as Chargers. I remember some guy finding one in a used car lot in the eightys..he recognized the rear window. I've worked at my share of Chrysler dealers and seen many options swapped on new cars. DVD players,GPS systems, but by far the most common was wheels. The customer would say 'I like that Sebring Conv but wish it had those wheels' I don't think many salesmen realized many of those wheels were almost $700.00 each!!

[Thack]

Years ago the VP of Plant Eng, St Louis wrote an article explaining the entire production process and answered these questions that pop up , he wrote the article to lay these questions to rest and CC'ed it to several mags. His answer to the question was "serviceable".

If you ordered a car with a black interior and the drivers side door panels were all used up they found a serviceable one. As an example, you ordered a 71 GTX with 15x7 Ralley Road wheels but it showed up with steels wheel and dog cap, the factory shipped a serviceable car, it was the dealers problem after that.

There were reasons everyone in high school had a Camaro or Chevelle. My Dad was a GM supper and when I told him I wanted a Mopar he thought I had no respect for money...might as well burn it. This summer I had to laugh at him as we sat in my garage, him smoking a pipe and in deep thought for some time as he stared at my Satellite.

"GM or Ford would have never let that happen" What, I asked. "Behind the back tire the quarter is high and rolled in, everything kicks up and hits it, causes rust. GM would have straightened it and brought it lower."

The point being, at that time Chrysler was crude, not just considered so, but truly crude. Their production methods were absolutely inline with that of International Harvester. As Tom Hoover has stated many times, "We just did'nt get it, it was all about making a buck with no understanding of product improvement." And shortly Chrysler would go on to be a failed enterprise, saved by Uncle Sam and Lee.

[RS23-71]

Well you see so much more talk about numbers matching and such when dealing with mopars as a hobby then if you are building a Ford or Chevy. You get into dealing with those other makes they dont seem to bring up the issue as much as we do in the Mopar hobby and I'm not sure why. I remember when I put my car into storage where it is now the guy that owns the shed was amazed I had a good idea what came on my car orginally. I mean he only builds chevys and they are more custom but he was still suprised that I was much more focused the numbers and what came on the car.

He takes his cars to chevy shows a lot and told me they don't seem to nitpick things as much as we do unless they are some ultra rare ones like yenkos and such. He works for a chevy dealership and has for a very long time, next time I go up to see my family and I stop by to check on my car I will have to have a longer talk with him and see if he came tell me how they can tell what came on their chevys orginally.

[AZ-Nick]

Doug - you are correct, in 1969 I bought a new Charger off the showroom floor and I didn't want the road wheels that came on with the car from the factory, I new I was going to put on Cragars and L60's so I had them put 14" steelies on the car to get me home......

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Nick, in your case and aside from production documentation, you knew your Charger didn’t come with those steelies from the factory. The guy who came by that dealer a mouth later and bought the “wheel swap donor” Charger may not have been told it didn’t come that way. If he didn’t keep his production documents as proof otherwise, he may go to his grave swearing those road wheels were “factory original”.

Curiously Nick, back 69’, buying a new Mopar, did you have the forethought then to save your window sticker and/or locate and retrieve the build sheet to keep for prosperity? My experience at the time, as much as I loved my 70’ RR, the thought that any of these cars would become by any means collectible, worth 10-20 times new sticker price, let alone still be on the road 35+ years in the future, was absolutely laughable.

the factory shipped a serviceable car, it was the dealers problem after that.

A foot note about undocumented dealer alterations; reading about the science of factory overspray patterns, application of body sealers/undercoating, original body fastener markings and such, always makes me chuckle to my self. The seventies were not exactly the high point in American automobile manufacturing in terms of quality. From my experience, of all domestic brands, I was convinced Chrysler was the absolute worst. Anyone exposed to these vehicles as they were unloaded directly off the transporters can attest. We had two separate storage lots for new car inventory, one for cars that had not yet been through PDI (Pre-delivery inspection) and the “front line”. By no means were costumers allowed to view any car that had not been PDI’d(not sure that word exists but that was the term).

The factory had predetermined PDI check lists the dealers were to follow, most dealers had there own more extensive lists of things that needed to checked and corrected before the car was considered presentable let alone deliverable. Some examples; check the body panel fit, to dealer, usually meant visually inspecting all body panel fasteners and replace all 10 or so missing bolts per car. Replacement fasteners were locally supplied generic nuts & bolts. Align every door/door latch-striker and re-hang both fenders to correct the horrid panel gaps. Thorough water leak tests, apply a couple of tubes of body sealer to all seams that had been omitted at the factory. Check sills and underbody for missing paint or undercoat. Rattle can body color/undercoating to correct. Check the wheel lug nut torque; replace any missing lug nuts or stripped/broken studs.
Road test, check if the steering wheel is straight or if the car pulls to one side and needed to be aligned. Check for/locate rattle coming from the passenger door, pull door panel, remove the paper lunch sack garbage with the empty soda bottle left there by some assembly line worker. Some cars could take a day or two to straighten out.

In the early eighties, as the result of a relocation, I went to work for a Porsche/Audi dealer, after years of accepting the “all foreign cars are junk” diatribe, I was astonished to see how well cars could be assembled.

[RS23-71]

Hell when my car was 'factory original' I was still in diapers and the way things are going now the next time I get to drive it again I will be back in diapers.

[AZ-Nick]

Curiously Nick, back 69’, buying a new Mopar, did you have the forethought then to save your window sticker and/or locate and retrieve the build sheet to keep for prosperity? My experience at the time, as much as I loved my 70’ RR, the thought that any of these cars would become by any means collectible, worth 10-20 times new sticker price, let alone still be on the road 35+ years in the future, was absolutely laughable.

Funny you should mention that, Yes I did keep the window sticker and my first wife cleaned the apt one day and she tossed it out, a few yrs later I tossed her out
As far as the build sheet, I saw it, it was attached on the back seat but on the back cushing and not the butt cushing, I didn't know what it meant at the time but it was there so I just left it there.

[72RDRNR]

Hell when my car was 'factory original' I was still in diapers and the way things are going now the next time I get to drive it again I will be back in diapers.

I might have been in the oven when mine was factory orig.

[DixieSatellite]

Interesting topic. I checked the tag / sheet on my '72 SSP 400, a car I have owned since 1991. I had the engine completely rebuilt / ported and tranny / suspension etc. rebuilt this year. The original carb was a 4-BBL TQ w/ spreadbore on a the 400, whereas the data tag says the car is a 2-BBL. The car was / is very original and it was definitely the original carb the car was delivered with. All other options are present / accounted for.

Ian B.

[steved]

Hell when my car was 'factory original' I was still in diapers and the way things are going now the next time I get to drive it again I will be back in diapers.

I might have been in the oven when mine was factory orig.

I was 3 year from the oven...my parents were just married when mine was in the showroom...

sjd

[Smellslike1974]

How fine of a line is between the term "original" and "stock"?

If a car was ordered to have certain options from the factory wouldn't that car be stock to its chosen options?
If so then the car could also we called original....but if you swapped the cars factory ordered engine with another of the same the term original would no longer be valid,but its still stock..